Thursday, September 20, 2012

Soap Operas and More Israel Stuff

My new thing to do, while exercising, is watch Australian soap operas.

This week I've watched random episodes of Neighbours and Home and Away.  Today I watched All Saints

It's funny.   Even though I don't know the characters,  the show is still very entertaining and interesting.

I guess that's the thing about soap operas. They're quick to grab you.

Well, I shouldn't speak for all of us.

I should say they grab ME. They might not grab you.

I have more soaps lined up for the coming days. Then I remembered the old 2011 Q and A's.   

I meant to get back to watching those. But I looked at the download page, and didn't have the motivation to download any.

Maybe I have Q and A burnout. 

I'll keep watching the new episodes, though. Probably. 

And yes.  I do think my burn out is somewhat due to being offended. (I'm pretending you asked).

I remembered something that I meant to write in my earlier post.

A few months ago, Q and A had another anti-Israel Jew—Miriam Margolyes.  

There's so many anti-Israel people out there.  Why does Q and A need to showcase two Jewish ones in one year?

I think it's that whole thing of letting people say.  See. Israel IS evil. Even the Jews agree.

Really.  For those who are ignorant of the subject, there are a fair number of Jews and Israelis who are against Israel.

But not all of us are that way.

Some blindly support it without any amount of apology.

Others support it's right to exist. Yet we understand it's not perfect, and believe there's always room for improvement.  

I'm now reading the transcript from the Margolyes show, reminding myself what was said.

I kind of like what Barry Humphries says to her, although it's a bit harsh.

Mel Gibson but, you know, he’s a fellow anti-Semite, you should sympathise with him and, you know, Miriam, whose wonderful show of Dickens’ women is in Sydney on Thursday night at the Opera House - you mustn't miss it. It is incredible. It may not be mentioned again, so I am giving it a plug. You’ll find North London Jews will be perfectly happy with what you have to say. There's a few anti-Semites amongst them, I can tell you.

Margolyes replies, understandably so.

I find that a bit disturbing.

Although I shouldn't pick on Professor Sprout.  I've been anti-Semitic at times myself. But I wouldn't say it was understandably so.  It's a prejudice like any other prejudice. Sometimes I have negative thoughts about Muslims.  Sometimes I have negative thoughts about Jews.  Something I have negative thoughts about black people. Sometimes I have negative thoughts about white people.    You get the picture.....

It's not something that's valid, and it's not something I'm proud of.  

It's not something that ANY of these groups deserve as a whole.  



Note-Often people question whether they can say something critical about Israel without being accused of anti-semitism.

Yes.  I think you can speak out against something Israel has done and not be seen as an anti-Semite.... if you do the following

A) refrain from denying, ignoring, and avoiding the subject of the Holocaust.  It's important to the story. Recognize that many groups were hurt by the Nazis, but understand that Jews were the main target.  

B) If you're going to complain about the behavior of the Israeli's, also complain about the behavior of the Palestinians.  They may be victims in some ways, but they aint no angels.   

C) Acknowledge that your country has probably done things just as bad as Israel...or even worse.

D) Understand what it would mean to support a one-state solution vs. a two state one.   If you support the one state solution, I'm going to have a hard time believing you're a friend of the Jews.

E) Don't say you think Israel should stop existing, but that doesn't mean you hate the Jews.  To me that's equal to saying you don't hate homosexuals, yet you don't think they should have same-sex relationships. There may not be hatred there, but there's definitely not support and understanding. 

So here's an example of what you CAN say.   I like the Jews. I think they should have a homeland, especially because of what happened to them in Europe during the 1940's.   It's awful that the Palestinians bomb buses, throw rocks, and do other antagonistic things.   BUT I think it's awful that the Israeli government killed so many people in Gaza. That was horrible and uncalled for.  

8 comments:

Andrew said...

All quite reasonable, except what about the settlements. While I don't understand the Israel/Palestinian situation in depth, the settlements seem inherently wrong.

Dina said...

Andrew,

I don't know much about the settlements. I've heard about it vaguely.

It's probably wrong. I'm not sure.

Dina said...

Okay...read a little bit.

They sound wrong to me.

I would guess (perhaps ignorantly) that those who support them do not want peace in Israel, and do not want to compromise with the Palestinians.

Dina said...

Read some more....

My general feeling is that Jews need to move out of those settlements.

The Palestinians need to stop demanding right of return for descendents of Palestinian refugees.

Then they also need to stop hurting and killing each other.

THEN there can be peace. Maybe.

I like to imagine that one day the Palestinians and Israeli's will be great allies with each other.

FruitCake said...

One tick each for A), B), and C).

I'm confused about what you mean by a one state solution, but mainly because I think on Q & A Irving Wallach was saying that in 1948 the Palestinians rejected a 2 state solution? Who knows.

I doubt there will be peace between Israel and Palestinians in my lifetime, which is sad. I can't see any point in dismantling Israel at this stage.

While I agree that following WWII Jews needed a homeland, but I'm not sure how I could insist that the homeland had to be specifically located where Israel is today. Yes, there is a lot of tradition and history in that location.
At the same time, tradition and history wouldn't be much of an excuse if all us Irish Catholics went back to Ireland and kicked out everyone who was loyal to Britain.
[And I'd be in trouble anyway 'cos of how I'm so much a bit of a mongrel breed.]

Having said all of that I see the Israel thing as a bit like white Australia. Maybe both countries could lift their game a bit in terms of closing some gaps?

Terrorism and guerilla warfare I don't approve of, I only talk of the "why" of it because if we don't expect it we would be fools.

Dina said...

Fruitcake,

Hopefully if Irish Catholics got handed Ireland as their homeland they wouldn't kick everyone out.

Wikipedia says there are 1.5 million Arabs in Israel who have Israeli citizenship. Some of these are Christian and some are Muslim.

There are other people as well. Sudanese, Gypsies, Armenians, Vietnamese.

Israel is NOT a Jew-only land. And there are non-Jews in the Israeli government.

Dina said...

A two state solution means some land goes to the Palestinian and some goes to the Israeli's.

I'm not sure of the details; but I think one of the main problems is both the Palestinians and Israelis want the same important bits of land. I think for religious reasons?

I think they both want Jerusalem.

Why not have a raffle and see who wins the city?

The other problem with the two state solution is that there are stubborn folks on both sides.

Like...these Jewish settlements. I'm guessing most of these folks would like all the Palestinians to disappear.

Then I think some Palestinians would like Jews to disappear....or at least fade away towards being a very quiet background noise.

They can do this by having a one state solution. With this, Palestinian refugees get equal right of return. There are a lot of them which would equal a lot of voters. They might get all the power in government. Then the Jews are in their mercy. And the Jews would no longer have a Jewish homeland.

Can they trust the Palestinians to take care of them if the Palestinians have control in the government?

I don't know.

I think the Holocaust has made Jews too paranoid to take that chance.

I want to believe the Palestinians would prove them wrong. But I have my doubts.

On the other hand...maybe if Palestinians were given a right to return...they'd be happy for the gesture, but realize they're happy staying where they are.

And if the Jews did feel they're population level was threatened...the Jews from the diaspora could migrate to Israel.

Then I imagine both groups would start mating like rabbits so they could make sure they have more voters than the other team.

Now that I think of it...maybe a one state solution WOULD work.

It would be fun to watch, at least.


I mean not that I want to watch them having sex. But it would be interesting to see all the competition.


Dina said...

Just thinking....Israel reminds me of affirmative action.

Some people think we need it...because of what has happened in the past. Certain groups of people need to be protected.

Other people think it's very racist and unfair.

Anyway...I'm kind of getting tired of talking about all this. So I might shut about it.

You (Fruitcake) and others are welcome to continue the discussion. I'll definitely read. But I don't know if I'm going to add anything more to the conversation.

I hope that's okay (if I decide to do that).