This is my first official detour post in my Learning About the Rise of Nazism in Germany series.
But it's actually not the first detour post. Part Six of the series—about Veit Harlan and his descendants was also a detour post. But, at the time, I hadn't thought of calling it that.
Warning: This post is VERY long. If you want a concise explanation of who Josef Mengele is and what horrible things he did, this is not the place to find it. My post is a rambling journey of trying to figure out where Mengele went while not being punished for his crimes against humanity. On top of that, there are rabbit holes and various tangents.
In my last post, (part 15), I started going down a rabbit hole about Josef Mengele and his family. The post started getting too long, and I decided to do a whole detour post about him.
For those who don't want to go back and read the previous post, here's a brief summary of what I got so far.
A) Mengele was never punished for his crimes
B) He spent decades hiding out in South America and eventually died there of natural causes.
C) His son Rolf met his father in the 1950's but was told Josef was his uncle
D) Josef never showed remorse for his sadistic crimes
E) Although Rolf was not happy about his father's crimes, he didn't want the drama that would come with his father being caught. So he kept his father's whereabouts a secret.
F) Josef's father and other family members supported their Nazi-hiding son with a monthly allowance
G) Josef had friends up to the day of his death
G) Karl Mengele, Josef's father, owned a business in Gunzberg in Bavaria, Germany. I'm not sure if it was a farm equipment business. Or freight cars. Or both. In 1984, it seemed to be doing well. In 1986, it ran into financial trouble. I'm not sure if it still exists at this point. But the name is still on Google Maps.
* * *
I'm not sure if this post is going to go into any of Mengele's crimes during the Holocaust. At this point, I'm more interested in how he got away with all his shit, and I want to know more about the people who supported and enabled him.
* * *
I'm not sure where to start.
Maybe with the Mengele company.
* * *
Here's a story from a publication called DW. They're a German publication for international audiences. DW stands for Deutsche Welle.
I'm going to guess that Deutsche Welle means German well?
Google Translate says I'm wrong.
It means German Wave.
* * *
The article says Mengele's company is a farm equipment one.
I feel irresponsible talking about Mengele without some talk of how incredibly shitty he was, so I will sprinkle some quotes here and there. I mean not from Mengele but from articles describing his evil.
This one says: He would operate on children without anesthetics, infect twins with tuberculosis and spotted fever. Many children died during these experiments; others were deliberately killed.
An historian from Ginzburg named Zdenek Zofka says that Mengele was neither a sadistic or a fanatic. She believed Mengele did his experiments by seeing his victims not as people but as material that is already dead.
I'd like to think he's a psychopath. Because I think that's preferable to him being a not-psychopathic person who was able to dehumanize certain populations.
I'm not even sure if dehumanize is the term I want to use.
Maybe I'll say de-sentientize.
It's when we convince ourselves that a person, other nonhuman animal, or any other sentient entity is NOT sentient....or not sentient enough to matter.
I think this de-sentientizing can be more dangerous than hate. Though hate is sometimes what leads to de-sentientizing. But other things can lead to de-sentienizing: group think, economic needs, hunger, curiosity, the desire for scientific advancements.....
I think we all do this de-sentientizing to some degree.
For those who take it very far, I'm thinking maybe it's worse than psychopathy.
If someone is lacking empathy, that doesn't necessarily mean they're going to do evil. If they want to stay out of trouble or if they want to be a good person, they can learn what is right and wrong; then make the choice not to harm others.
But what about a nice guy who has tons of empathy for his friends; loves his kids, loves his parents, donates to charity...But he repeatedly rapes the android next door, because he doesn't believe she's sentient?
Black Mirror episode "USS Callister" and the TV show Severance do a great job exploring these philosophical issues, by the way.
The thing is, I think these days, decent people are going to think, OF COURSE Jews are real people and we shouldn't experiment on them. Or: of course, Black people are real people, and we shouldn't make them slaves.
So...I think it's good to use science fiction to help us to understand the mindset.
* * *
Getting back to the article.
Karl Mengele was a Nazi. Or at least he joined the Nazi party.
Does joining the party make you a Nazi? Or do you need to also do Nazi work and wear a Nazi uniform?
If you only join the party...is it more like being a Nazi groupie rather than an actual Nazi?
Anyway....
In 1932, Karl offered factory space to the Nazis to hold an election campaign event. The article doesn't say whether or not the offer was accepted.
I'm going to guess it was.
Otherwise, the article would probably say the offer was rejected.
And I'm also imagining the rejection would have embarrassed the family. They'd probably try to keep it quiet.
* * *
Oh. Fuck this.
After the war...after the Holocaust....
Karl was elected mayor.
In 1952, he was honored as a gold medal-citizen.
A street was named after him.
Maybe that's what I saw on Google Maps yesterday (rather than the business)
I have to wonder whether the townspeople knew what Karl's son had done.
Was it something well-known, and the townspeople didn't care. Or worse...saw it as awesome?
Was it a rumor that people ignored?
Or were most people completely in the dark about it?
* * *
Karl Mengele died in 1959.
Josef's younger brother Alois took over the business.
The article says it has since gone broke.
I'm not sure when the article was written...but I did glance a bit into the later paragraphs and saw 2009 mentioned.
* * *
Now I'm at the 2009 part.
Josef's nephew Dieter Mengele created a charity called Familie Dieter Mengele Sozialstiftung.
They've donated a quarter of a million euros to charity. But they don't want to have anything to do with the past. The article says, not even with projects that commemorate his uncle's victims.
I'm taking this to mean that the Mengele family doesn't give a crap about trying to make amends for what their relative has done.
* * *
In 1985...around the time that the articles I read yesterday were published, there was a big fuss made about Gunzburg and Mengele.
In Israel, there was a symbolic tribunal where victims spoke on camera about what Mengele had done to them.
The United States government ordered an investigation. I want to read more about that.
Reporters from around the world came to Gunzburg. The town was nicknamed Mengele town.
I imagine there's some citizens of Gunzburg who want us to pity them.
I don't.
A former mayor of the town is against renaming the Mengele streets. He says it would be like blaming all the Mengele family.
Yeah. Well, they deserve blame.
Those who commit horrific abuse deserve blame.
Those who support and enable abusers deserve blame.
Those who celebrate abusers deserve blame.
Those who hide abusers deserve blame.
Rudolf Koppler, the mayor, reminds me of Americans who are more protective of the Confederate Flag and Confederate Statue than they are living people.
The Mengele family and Koppler and anyone else in Gunzburg who wants to shut their eyes to history remind me of all the Republican politicians who want to keep the subject of systemic racism out of schools.
* * *
Just like America has people fighting to remove Confederate flags and Confederate statues...Gunzburg also has people that are willing to face the past.
A theater called Experimentelles Theater Günzburg did a play about Mengele and the founder said, We denounce all doctors who carry out criminal human experiments.
Although I hope this play wasn't this really funny and/or touching story about Mengele with the statement being just a quick disclaimer.
* * *
There's a plaque in a historical courtyard called Dossenberger that honors Mengele's victims, and now the courtyard has become an elementary school.
I'll try to find it on Google Maps.
And I'll probably try to explore the town in general.
Gunzburg is about an hour east of Munich.
I don't think there's a lot of Google Street View for Gunzberg.
The school with the plaque is probably the Dossenberger Gymnasium School.
There's a website called Traces of Evil. It might have a picture of the plaque. Unfortunately the graphics on the page are too much for my sensitive eyes. I mean autistic-wise (sensory issues) Not: Oh, I can't bare to see the evil.
I think the website is anti-Nazi...not pro-Nazi.
Anyway, here's a link if you're wanting to look at it.
There is just way too many moving graphics on that page.
* * *
I'm going to give up trying to find another website with the memorial plaque.
I think I'll look at the Karl Mengele street instead.
Okay. So I think what I saw yesterday (in the last post) was the street and not the factory.
I don't see any businesses on the street. It looks like it's a neighborhood.
I wish it had Street view.
One building did have a little photo-circle-thing. I clicked on it and ended up in a building. I explored a little and found a room with a dentist chair. That just seems....
Who would want to go to a dentist on a street named after Mengele?
Oh!
I think there might also be an MRI machine.
Maybe it has multiple medical offices?
I'm going to try to do the link. Hopefully, it works. If anyone ever reads this post...well, I can imagine they might want to see what I'm seeing.
* * *
I need to feed the cats; then take a shower.
I'll probably continue with this tonight...but maybe not until tomorrow.
At this point, I'm feeling that I'm going to be working on this post for several days, and it's probably going to be overly super long.
* * *
I'm back for a short time.
I've opened up Google Translate to help me understand what goes on in this building.
A door is marked with the word Ontgen. I thought it might be oxygen. But it's "avoid". Maybe radiation?
Another sign said Schone Zahne. That translates as "Clean Teeth" which fits well with the dentist chairs.
There's a room with a pig sculpture labeled besprechung.
Google Translate says that means "meeting".
* * *
I plugged in the Google name on the photo thingie and then translated.
The building is labeled as a dental clinic.
So it's all dental, I guess.
Maybe the machine I saw is not MRI. Or maybe sometimes dentists need MRI machines.
* * *
There's a second Google circle thing in the area...indicating a photo view.
I wasn't sure if it was on the Mengele street. You know how sometimes a building is on a corner...and it could have either street as it's address?
I clicked on the circle, and it's the same building as the one I saw on the Mengele street.
I'm thinking there could be a mistake....and the dental building is not actually on the Mengele street.
* * *
I looked up dentists in Gunzberg and ended up on this Google site.
It doesn't show any dentists on the Mengele street...or even near it.
I should move on from this.....
Probably.
* * *
It's the next day.
I just read over what I wrote so far.
It's funny. Reading it...it looks like I spent like 5-10 minutes on Google Maps looking at this dentist office. Reasonable.
But in real life...it was probably over an hour. And I was late to my nightly TV-watching date with Tim. Though he didn't mind, because he used the time to watch some of his TV show. You know...we have our mutual shows but also our solo shows.
* * *
I Googled to try to find the address of the Karl Mengele business and ended up finding videos on the website of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. It's interviews or attempted interviews with citizens of Gunzburg. It was filmed in 1985. Actually, one is a film, and the others are audio-only.
I'm going to watch the video and maybe listen to some of the audio.
They show the Karl-Mengele street signs.
Well....
I'm not going to gain much from the dialogue. It's in German.
The video is raw footage, I think...which is kind of cool.
The interview starts out cheerful...and smokey. The interviewer has a cigarette and the interviewee was smoking while working...before the interview began.
And then the smiles start fading a bit as things like Auschwitz are mentioned.
I don't think USHMM has a translation of the dialogue. But they provide a few pieces of dialogue. One of the workers says, Auschwitz was part good and part bad and It's all in the past.
* * *
Now the video is showing footage of the Karl Mengele equipment. There's a lot of red! It makes me wonder if it was a sort of homage to Nazi colors.
* * *
At the end of the video, they show more footage of the street. It's pretty.
If the factory is no longer in business....I wonder what's there now in it's place. Are the original buildings still there? Are they occupied?
* * *
I'm going to pass on listening to the audio...since it's in German. And though I've been doing some German on Duolingo, I can't understand much.
I do understand "nein" though, and one guy said it several times.
* * *
I was trying to find more information about the Mengele street and ended up finding a Chicago Tribune article about Josef Mengele's wife.
This too is from 1985.
1985 was a big year in terms of interest in Mengele.
Mrs. Mengele was living in a town in Italy called Meran. The town was originally part of Austria but got rebranded after World War I.
She was found by a German newspaper. I like knowing that (some) Germans themselves are doing the research to bring war criminals and enablers to light.
The theme of Mrs. Mengele's response was denial. She said it was all lies and propaganda.
Oh! This article was written before they knew Joseph Mengele was dead. It says, Mengele, rumored to be living in Paraguay, is wanted by Israel and the United States on charges he committed bizarre genetic experiments on Jews in an attempt to create a master race of blond, blue-eyed superhumans.
Mrs. Mengele is a post-Holocaust wife. They got married in 1958 in Argentina. Later she moved back to Europe. I wonder why....
The website says that Meran was friendly to Nazis and that the Mengele family had a branch of their business there.
I consulted Lord Wiki to see what he has to say about Meran. It doesn't mention it being a Nazi haven (or connected-to-Nazis haven) in the 1980's. But he does say that most of the Jews in the town were murdered during the Holocaust.
* * *
The (attempted) interview with Mrs. Mengele was done in March 1985.
Then from Google, I saw there was another article the following June. I tried to read it in the Chicago Tribune, but I hit the article limit.
Fortunately, the story was picked up by other newspapers.
I'm going to read about it in the South Florida Sun-Sentinel.
It turns out the Mrs...who is named Martha...was originally married to Josef's brother Karl.
Karl died.
There are three brothers, by the way. Karl, Josef, and Alois.
It was believed by the townspeople of Gunzburg that Josef married his brother's widow in order to get more of a hold on the family business.
At the time of the article, the idea of the Mengele family sending money to Josef in San Paulo was seen as allegation and not fact. The Mengele's denied it.
I wonder if the rumor has ever been proven.
The mayor of Gunzburg, Rudolf Koeppler, sounds very ridiculous.
He says both these things:
A) The family here is highly regarded.
B) Slowly a legend is being formed that Guenzburg is a stronghold of incorrigible Nazis who stand behind Mengele.
Did he not realize that A is part of the reason that people believe B?
And the Gunzburg citizens weren't happy with all the media. I don't blame them for not liking a bunch of reporters invading their daily lives. I DO blame them for complaining about an obsession with the past.
* * *
Here's a more recent article in The Guardian (2004...which is 18 years ago but in some ways feels like five or so)
Dr. Mengele left behind diaries and letters which were filed away in a San Paulo archive.
Maybe these writings are what led to people forgiving him in the Netflix documentary. Maybe he didn't act remorseful in front of his son...but maybe in his writing he did.
The article says he had abdominal pains, because he nervously chewed on his mustache.
Ah. That wipes the slate clean.
The article mentions the friends of Mengele I read about for my previous post— Liselotte and Wolfram Bossert.
I'm going to probably Google them later.
I shouldn't hate them outright. They might have had no idea he was a Nazi.
Well as for Mengele feeling remorse. It seems the answer was...a big fat NO.
The majority of the letters were written to a Nazi buddy named Wolfgang Gerhard.
I had a friend name Gerhard in college...German but from Argentina. He was a darling. But now I'm wondering whether I should have put some more thinking and questioning into whether he had Nazi ties. I mean...I doubt he was a Nazi. But some of his relatives might have been. I wonder if we ever talked about my being Jewish and/or the Holocaust. I wonder how he responded. I don't remember having any deep, satisfying, bonding conversations. But I can't remember enough to declare I had brought it up, and he had been avoidant or dismissive.
Back to Mengele....In his later years, he read the memoirs of a Nazi named Albert Speers.
The article describes Mengele as being depressed and resentful which is much different than being depressed and repenting.
The article talks about Mengele having financial struggles. That's good.
Maybe the family had been telling the truth about not sending money. Or maybe they stopped at some point.
Or maybe he misused and overused the funds.
Mengele remained racist. He was a fan of apartheid in South Africa and was against mixed race offspring.
He had an interesting theory of why us disgusting Jews have such amazing cultural achievements. He credited the company we keep: they always lived with peoples of a high cultural level ... like Moses in Egypt, Einstein in Swabia, Mendelssohn in Germany or Disraeli in England.
Interesting!
That's actually an antisemitic idea I've not heard of before.
* * *
I'm looking at Forgiving Dr. Mengele on IMDb.
It's about forgiving for the purpose of self-healing.
That's fine for some people.
I don't personally agree with it.
I personally feel it's more healthy to hate as much as one needs to and then hopefully, naturally that hate will someday fade to indifference.
There are people I passionately hated ten or so years ago. I rarely think of them anymore. And when I do...I don't feel that much towards them.
I also think there's something kind of condescending about this kind of forgiveness. I think of it as akin to people saying, I'll pray for you when what they really mean is Fuck you to hell, asshole.
Now someone like Mengele deserves worse than condescending words. But for people who've done less wrong and are more regretful...I sometimes feel that I forgive you translates as, You've done me wrong. But I'm not going to let you occupy space in my head anymore.
Actually, I think that's pretty much exactly how some people see forgiveness.
I prefer forgiveness being about apologies and restored love...reconciliation.
* * *
Getting back to the documentary.
I'm reading the reviews. Apparently it discusses what I ranted about above.
Eva Kor, the founder of CANDLES, the Holocaust museum I talked about in my last post, persuaded another Nazi doctor (Hans Munch) to come to Auschwitz with her to declare that the Holocaust happened. They had a ceremony of some sorts where she forgave Munch. Then a reporter asked if she also forgave Mengele. She said yes. Some people weren't happy with that.
One of the reviewers says, In one of the many dramatic sequences, as a group of Jews argue with Kor at a Jewish centre, the meaning of the word "forgive" is even debated, but the isolated and outnumbered Kor holds her own.
I was feeling dismissive of the documentary before. But reading this makes me want to watch it.
Though the reviewer also says the documentary ends up showing Kor as being inspiring.
I don't think victims of horrific abuse should be relied upon to inspire others with their forgiveness.
The next reviewer presents Hans Munch as someone who didn't actually need that much forgiving. I was picturing an enthusiastic Jew-killer who later changed his ways. But he resisted killing Jewish patients and did things to try to protect them.
That reviewer also points out something that kind of makes me question things.
They say there's this scene in a movie where Kor meets with Muslims who tell her that Jews are responsible for all their problems and that Jews never lived in Israel before 1945. The reviewer says: It is simply distasteful to recruit an elderly, female, Holocaust survivor, get her alone in a room, and harangue her with blatant anti-Semitism. The film doesn't comment on this encounter. No conclusion is reached. One wonders why it was included.
My first impression is it's included to paint Muslims with a very negative brush.
This and the undeserved forgiveness...which I see as a Christian kind of value. It makes me wonder if the film was made by evangelical Christians.
The third reviewer, a Christian, seems disturbed by the reluctance of other Jews to not be forgiving. They say: I had never heard of anyone using these excuses before, much less believing them. I realized that forgiveness is emphasized in the New Testament and in my upbringing. Perhaps in the Jewish community it means something different, perhaps they don't see it as a virtue at all . . . and that seems totally bizarre to me.
I thank the God-I-don't-actually-believe-in that I'm the type of person this reviewer would label as totally bizarre.
By the way, the excuse this reviewer is referring to? It's that it's not THEIR business to forgive. It's up to God and to forgive would be a betrayal to their parents.
And maybe those parents were murdered by Nazis.
Okay. I just read further and have to give this reviewer credit. They say: Please do not assume that I mean to say Catholics and Christians are more virtuous people- they may speak from the moral foundation I know, but they are by NO MEANS, more virtuous people.
I've encountered some Christians who think Christian is a literal synonym for "Good". I'm glad the reviewer doesn't seem to be one of them.
Now the fourth reviewer responds to the third reviewer reminding them...and ME (yikes) that Yom Kippur is all about forgiveness.
Well...I also take umbrage with some aspects of Yom Kippur apologies and forgiveness. I wrote a post about it a few years ago if anyone is interested. I had labeled and defined different types of apologies, and I nicknamed one the Yom Kippur apology. This is a blanket apology where we don't actually acknowledge what we've done.
There's a big difference between: I'm sorry I invited you on a trip with me and then forgot I invited you and invited other people and totally dropped the subject with you until it was time to send photos of the trip. I feel terrible, and I hope I can make it up to you.
Vs.
If I've done anything in the last 12 months to offend you, I am sorry and hope you will forgive me.
The fifth reviewer seems to sort of be on the same page as me: Is she really truly forgiving the Nazis? Personally, I felt that forgiveness may be an inappropriate word. What I felt that she is doing was acknowledging that it happened, and then leaving the pain of it in the past. She is not "getting over it" or "moving on." She builds a museum in her home town of Terra Haute, Indiana about the Holocaust and her experiences. But she is not allowing herself to be burdened by the pain anymore.
The sixth reviewer did NOT like the movie. Either that or they're very stingy with ratings. They gave it a 3/10.
They say this about the Palestinian scene. First, Eva's own capacity to listen and forgive is given a test when she meets with Palestinians. Here, she does not come off as very compassionate at all. This was hard to watch, and again, not pleasant.
At first, I was feeling defensive. She's already been given a huge test in forgiveness! WTF?
But maybe it's easier to "forgive" someone who has long been dead and won't argue back.
The seventh reviewer seems pretty antisemitic. Some of what they say may have merit...it's about Kor being better at forgiving those who have hurt her people but not good being part of the group who is facing the anger. But the reviewer says, But when she is faced by her own race's atrocities she turns into a complete Nazi.
Yeah. That's not good.
And just as a note: If you're going to comment and demand to know why that's antisemitic...I'm not planning to respond.
The last reviewer....
By the way, there's a reason why the reviews get less and less positive. Instead of being in chronological order, they're in order of rating number. I guess that's the default?
Anyway....
The last reviewer....the one who gave the lowest rating (1/10) sheds some light on the Islamophobia aspects of the movie. They say: Firstly, you immediately notice her body language, defensive and unwilling to listen in a room full of Arab scholars and teachers. Her comments about how she feared that they might kidnap her shows how much of a waste of time, effort and money the entire act was. A rather annoyed Dr Sami Advan (Professor of education at Bethlehem University) gets it just right when he tells Kor off for a statement she makes about how she would rather be asleep in her apartment.
This reviewer doesn't say anything that I see as being antisemitic. They do, unfortunately, use the R word. The review happened in 2009, though. Maybe the word was less taboo back then?
* * *
I was kind of exasperated with myself for spending so much of this post on the documentary. BUT then I remembered it was kind of the name of the documentary that got me wanting to do this post in the first place.
* * *
Now I'm watching the trailer.
They show a clip of Kor at Auschwitz doing the ceremony. She doesn't just say she forgives all Nazis. She says she gives them amnesty.
And then the next clip is a victim asking what right does she have to do that?
* * *
It's actually the next day now. I didn't finish watching the trailer last night. We got busy with eating dinner and then watching Heredity.
Today we were out most the day. But before leaving, I decided to watch a little bit of Forgiving Dr. Mengele on Neflix.
It turns out it's no longer on Netflix.
Now it's on Amazon Prime.
By the time anyone reads this, it might have switched over to another platform.
I was most curious about the scene with the Palestinians, so I watched that.
I don't really know what to think about it.
The conversation seems like it was heavily edited. I'm not sure if the raw footage would make things seem more pleasant. Maybe it would add more nuance.
Neither the Palestinians nor Kor come off as endearing.
I think I've written in my blog somewhere about how I don't think it's right for any single person to be outnumbered while trying to respond to people who are angry about what that sole person's community/group has done.
Shit. It's taking me so long to figure out how to write the sentence above.
I felt sorry for Kor and somewhat defensive. Well, she hasn't personally done anything to Palestinians. And here she's having to hear all their grievances.
Then I argued with myself. Well then, why was I okay with the German workers being bombarded with questions about Mengele? Is that fair?
I think it's about numbers.
I think it would be more fair if Kor met alone with one Palestinian, and they both talked things over.
Also....
I think it IS okay to be bombarded when the person is not just a representative of the group but actually guilty.
I'm trying to think of an example.
How about a man who has sexually harassed several of his coworkers...and they have a meeting where they tell him how he has hurt them. I think that's pretty fair.
But maybe it would be less fair if a random man is faced with an angry group of woman who....
* * *
Now I'm rethinking things.
Maybe it wouldn't have been too hard to ask Eva Kor to simply listen.
At least with the footage shown, the Palestinians were simply sharing how life was hard for them and how they've been treated poorly by Israelis.
A reviewer had said something about the Palestinians saying Jews were responsible for all their problems. I don't remember hearing that.
Maybe I didn't finish the scene? I was watching it just before we left the house.
I'll watch it again in a few minutes.
I want to share my initial impressions first: It was awkward and tense. A lack of friendliness. Kor said something which I felt MAYBE was a really bad attempt at an ice-breaker. She said she'd rather be at hotel in her bed. I suspect it was her way of acknowledging that this conversation was going to be hard for all of them. I took it less like, I'm doing you a big favor by being here. I don't want to do this and more in the spirit of: Oh...I'm nervous. I'm not sure this is going to go so well.
If it was well-intentioned, it backfired. The Palestinians were offended, because they had gone through a lot to get to the meeting...I think they said a two hour journey? And they had to struggle through checkpoints.
Kor said in the private interviewing part that she worried the Palestinians might kidnap her. That was over the top. First of all, don't they have a whole camera crew with her? Were the Palestinians going to take all of them? It was blatantly racist. I'm imagining she was maybe egged on by the filmmakers to say it....
IF she chose to say it, would it be dishonest filmmaking to edit it out?
I guess maybe it would be.
But I don't personally think of documentaries as being honest. I feel they often have an agenda and are going to keep the dialogue that fits their agenda.
If I'm right and the inclusion of the kidnapping remarks were used for an agenda....Was the agenda about making Kor less sympathetic; more complicated...which would make the documentary more controversial and interesting. OR was there the idea that most viewers wouldn't flinch with the line, because the expected viewers are going to lean towards Islamaphobia?
* * *
Is there a limit to how long a post can be?
I mean does Blogger have a word count maximum?
I Googled....it doesn't seem like it.
* * *
I decided to finish watching the trailer and then I will rewatch the Palestinian scene.
The trailer gives me the names of the filmmakers—Bob Hercules and Sheri Pugh. I'm going to try to remember to Google them later.
I wonder if Sheri Pugh is related to Florence Pugh.
Florence Pugh looks like one of my nieces, by the way.
The trailer shows Kor arguing with another Holocaust survivor and the assumption Kor seems to have is that forgiving ends the pain of the past.
Who needs therapy when all we have to do is announce that we forgive someone?
The last line in the trailer is Kor saying something like, Getting even has never healed a single person.
I don't think it has to be a choice between forgiveness and getting even.
Sometimes you can just hold a grudge and wish for Karma to give you the last laugh.
* * *
I'm watching the Palestinian scene again.
I went back further than this morning.
It gives me a different context.
From some of the reviews, I got the idea that the documentary might be somewhat Islamophobic.
I'm definitely not getting that sense now. I think they're doing a fair job of showing the Palestinian's viewpoint...and giving a fair amount of insight into how difficult their lives are.
Also to balance out, Kur's fear of being kidnapped...Sami Adwan, a Palestinian man, admits to, at one time, blaming ALL Israelis for the pain he has experienced.
I just re-saw the wish-to-be-back-at-the-hotel line. Kur says it with a sheepish smile. I think it was more about admitting her insecurity than trying to say she sees this meeting as a waste of time.
I think Adwan responding with a scolding-lecture kind of set the tone of hostility. Things might have worked out better if he had responded by saying something friendly like, Oh yeah. This isn't going to be easy for any of us.
Later Kor adds to the tension by telling the Palestinians that she feels trapped, didn't want to hear their stories, etc.
Adwan responds by saying he'd listen to HER story. That might be true. But this comes after the Palestinians have been doing a lot of the talking, sharing their grievances. Did they give her a chance to speak? A chance that felt welcoming?
* * *
I just realized that I was totally wrong about Kor being the only Jewish person there...bombarded by Palestinian grievances. There's at least one other Jewish woman there.
Now that I've seen the scene, I have less hostility towards the filmmakers.
In terms of the awkward, tense meeting, I side with neither the Palestinians or Eva Kor. OR I could say I side with both of them.
* * *
It's another day later.
And a part of me has been wondering if I failed this post by obsessing over the Palestinian scene.
Really. That scene was all I pretty much wrote about yesterday...and the trailer.
I totally neglected Mengele.
Not that he doesn't totally deserve neglect.
But still.
Today I'm going to try to concentrate more on Mengele and those who supported him in his hiding days.
* * *
But first...
I'm going to look up the directors of the documentary. I was going to wait on that. But curiosity is getting the better of me.
From reading the reviews of Forgiving Dr. Mengele, I had this suspicion that the filmmakers were far-right evangelical Christians. Watching actual scenes from the movie gave me a very different idea. And the latter idea fits better with reality.
From Bob Hercule's filmography on IMDb...he looks more to the left.
Cheri Pugh the other director has only the Dr. Mengele film on her directing/writing filmography. That's interesting.
I'm going to avoid another rabbit hole...though I'm tempted to spend hours figuring out why she got involved with the film, why doesn't she have more work on IMDb listed, is she related to Florence Pugh....
* * *
I'm looking at a Mengele family tree on a website called Family Search.
I Googled Alois, one of Josef's brothers.
Wikitree, another genealogy site says that Alois died in 1974 of cancer. I'm confused, because I thought he was the one who had taken over the farm equipment business...later than the 1970's. But maybe I'm remembering wrong.
Okay. I just searched through this post and found the answer. Karl, the father of Josef, Alois, and Karl jr died in 1959. So it was back then, that Alois took over.
I just scrolled down and learned that Family Search is a service provided by Mormons. I remember learning that they're into genealogy.
Alois was a popular name in the family. Josef's brother, uncle, and grandfather shared the same name.
I wonder if the Mengele family had any black sheep. Or were they all antisemitic Nazis or Nazi apologists?
The Mormon site is telling me to create a free account when I click on certain names. I'm not afraid the Mormons will kidnap me. But I do worry about getting even more junk mail.
I'm going to see if the Wiki site will let me look without signing up for something.
* * *
I'm not finding anything fascinating.
I guess a part of me was hoping to find their modern descendants and then stalk them on Twitter or something.
WikiTree doesn't mention Josef's son Rolf...out of privacy...even though his identity is pretty easily found online in the articles from the 1980's.
I just found a video interview with Rolf Mengele. The first two comments on the video seem positive towards Rolf. Maybe on video he comes off as more sympathetic than he did in the articles.
I mean I DID have sympathy for him...definitely. But I also feel he took the too-easy way out.
Well...I'm about three minutes into the video. I'm not feeling extra sympathy for Rolf Mengele yet.
I'm wondering if Eva Kore ever met with Rolf? I have no idea if he's still alive or whether he was alive when she did her forgiveness thing.
Now I'm onto the part where Rolf finally asks his dad about Auschwitz. He waited a few days. When he asked, his father blew up and called it propaganda. He also twisted the narrative when Rolf brought up the selection process. Josef claimed to have helped kids...I think referring to the kids who he did NOT select for his experiments.
It's kind of like child molesters. Why do we always dwell on the kids they sexually abused? Why are we so negative like that? Why don't we talk more about all the kids they didn't molest?
And really! Think about it! How many people have been saved by a serial killer who looked at the potential victim; then decided...Nope.
* * *
Now I'm going to watch a Phil Donahue interview with Mengele.
Rolf talks about how his father tried to avoid blame by saying he was just following orders and that he didn't invent Auschwitz.
I think such an argument can have some sympathetic merit IF the person later disavows Nazism and works against it. But from what I've read, Mengele never really stopped being a Nazi...at least in spirit.
This video has sympathetic and compassionate comments for Rolf as well.
I don't think I share those feelings....especially when he admits, with confidence, that if he had to make the choice again, he'd still hide his father from Nazi hunters.
I'm not trying to say I picture it easier betraying an evil family member or that I'd be able to act differently if I was in Rolf Mengele's shoes.
But I think I'd feel much more morally conflicted. I think I'd feel ashamed. Rolf Mengele's attitude is along the lines of how-in-the-world-could-anyone-dare-ask-me-to-betray-my-own-father!
Along with Phil Donahue and Rolf Mengele, on stage, there's also a writer of a major Mengele book—Gerald Posner. He interrogates Mengele with accusations. I mean he doesn't let him off easy like all these people in the comment section.
I'm skeptical about talk shows, though. I have to wonder if it's all set up—that they make it look like a surprise attack...but maybe Rolf was told of the difficult questions beforehand. It might be less about investigating and more about sensationalizing and/or playing devil's advocate.
* * *
Posner asks Mengele why he wasn't at least willing to come forward after he heard of his father's death, so the (surviving) Holocaust victims could have closure. His excuse then? The friends of Mengele in San Paulo asked him not to, because they didn't want all the bother of it.
Fuck that.
I'm going to read more about these friends later....
* * *
Okay. Now I'm having a little more sympathy. Posner explains to Donahue that Mengele has been cut off from his family, since now he IS talking to the press.
They're explaining on the show that in Germany family members are legally protected from testifying against each other.
I kind of thought we had something like that too?
Maybe it's just spouses?
Either way...I think there are laws protecting people if they don't want to testify against family. I don't think there'd be a law against it if someone felt morally obliged.
This website Criminal Defense Lawyer says it's spouses in the U.S who can't be forced to give evidence against each other.
* * *
Posner talks about Rolf being the black sheep of the family.
That makes sense. I guess I should look on the bright side of things. Though he wasn't strong enough to betray his father and stand up against those protecting him...eventually he did come forward and speak out against what his father did.
Posner and Mengele talk about one of the ways Josef Mengele was able to hide from Nazi hunters is they expected him to be living a fancy life but instead he lived in the "slums of San Paulo". This was brought up when asked about Karl Mengele and company/family sending him money.
Posner says that prior to living in the slums of San Paula, Mengele was living a fancy life in Argentina.
Well...here's something shocking.
Posner says that while in Argentina, Mengele used his real name. Okay. That's only slightly shocking. The more shocking thing is he almost went into business with a Jewish person.
Did Mengele not know the guy was Jewish? Did the Jewish guy not know who Mengele was?
* * *
Well, I finished the video.
Phil Donahue asked some great moral compass questions at the end. It makes me wish he was still alive.
I wonder where he'd be politically if he was still alive.
He definitely sounds like a Democrat and not Republican.
Or if he was a Republican, he'd be on team Liz Cheney/Adam Kinzinger rather than Team Trump.
* * *
Uh....
I just Googled Phil Donahue.
Lord Wiki says he's still alive!!!!!!!!!!!
That's really great news.
I had no idea.
And I'm right about him not being on Team Trump.
* * *
Back to Mengele.
I wonder if any of the family is still alive.
I wonder if Rolf made any public appearances after the 1980's.
* * *
Ancestry.com lists Rolf as dying in 2013.
That's about all I can find.
* * *
I did some more Mengele Googling and ended up seeing articles about Josef Mengele being an abortion doctor during his time in Argentina.
Was that true? I Don't know yet.
I can definitely expect, true or not, that it would be exploited in anti-abortion arguments.
Here's an anti-abortion Facebook group promoting the fact/not fact? that Mengele performed abortions.
I guess what we're supposed to conclude that since Mengele did evil in the Holocaust and then went on to do abortions, then abortions must be evil too.
That's fair, I guess.
I also heard Mengele went to the opera in Argentina.
We should then conclude that going to the opera is evil.
There was once a man who earned a PhD in anthropology. He went on to study genetics.
That man later became known as "The Angel of Death" at Auschwitz.
So...we should probably conclude that anyone studying anthropology and/or genetics is evil...and that the study of those things are inherently bad.
* * *
The National Catholic Register has an editorial about Mengele and his abortion days.
Matthew Archbold say Mengele performed illegal abortions...and he got that info from a New York Times article. I actually saw the article but I was...I forgot the word. But you know where you are blocked from reading, because you read the allotted free articles for the month?
Anyway...Archbold says: There are many differences between the holocaust of the Jews by the Germans and the abortions of hundreds of millions of the unborn. Both have different reasons but underlying each is the dehumanization of its victims.
This is one of the reasons I prefer my term: de-sentienizing.
To me, level of sentience is much more important than level of humanness.
Abortions DO kill humans. But those humans are very likely not very sentient.
I don't know, scientifically speaking, how sentient they are. But I'm going to assume that they are much less sentient than pigs, cows, octopuses, chickens, turkeys, sheep, goats, etc.
To cry over the death of a creature because it has human form but then happily go and eat a turkey sandwich....
THAT is speciesism.
People have every right to believe that humanness is more valuable than sentience. For those people, I can understand why abortion is very wrong while eating chicken nuggets is totally fine.
What's not okay is forcing that opinion on other people.
How would those people like it if vegans took control of government and made it illegal to eat meat, eggs, and dairy?
* * *
While I'm on the subject of Mengele abortioning in Argentina....I think I'll go ahead and research his time there.
Lord Wiki says Mengele sailed to Argentina in 1949. His wife refused to accompany him. I think that was Martha? Or was it the first wife? And which is the mother of Rolf? The answer, I think, is somewhere buried in this post. I haven't really given it a full read/edit lately.
Anyway....
Mengele began his Argentina life in a suburb called Vicente Lopez. He lived in a boarding house and worked as a carpenter. I'm tempted to Google Map this. But Lord Wiki says Mengele lived there only a few weeks. I can picture myself writing 3000 words on Vicente Lopez even though it probably isn't that significant to Mengele's history.
Mengele then moved to a fancier area called Florida Este. And it turns out, Mengele didn't just get an allowance from the family and the business. He worked for them as a sales representative!
Mengele moved around quite a bit in Argentina. Lord Wiki mentions four places of residences.
He was using the alias: Helmut Gregor. But then in the 1950's, he obtained a foreign residence permit using his real name. He used this to get a passport, and that's how he was able to travel to Europe to meet Rolf. Although with Rolf, he used a fake name again.
Oh! This is where he met Martha. And I forgot. She was his sister-in-law.
Karl, Josef's brother and Martha's first husband, had already died.
Martha and her son, Josef's nephew (and I guess future stepson) came to Argentina to be with Josef a month after he had returned to there.
I do wonder about the soap opera aspects. I read before that the townspeople of Gunzburg thought Josef had been using Martha to get his hands deeper into the family business. Was it a business arrangement for both him and Martha? Are the townspeople wrong? Did Josef and Martha actually fall in love? Was Martha in love while Josef faked the love?
And no matter what the motives...was this all planned during Josef's visit to Europe? Or did they have a budding relationship or friendship; she came to visit with her son...and then it turned into something more?
* * *
There's some drama between 1958-1960.
So...what happens is Josef Mengele kills a woman with his illegal abortion activities. He was questioned by authorities but not charged. BUT it made him a bit weary about attracting publicity and getting caught. He ended up moving to Paraguay and adopting the name Jose Mengele. Martha went back to living in Europe.
I don't know enough about the history of Nazi hunting and Holocaust awareness. But I'm wondering if part of Mengele's increased caution was due to more than just the abortion-death. I mean a few years earlier, he had been okay using his real name, obtaining a passport, returning to Europe, etc. Maybe society had added a bigger push to find and punish Nazis.
* * *
I wonder why Martha left South America. Did the romance die? Or was there a more practical reason?
* * *
Lord Wiki talks about the Nazi hunting question.
Mengele's name was mentioned in the Nuremberg trials. But it was believed he was dead. Later, in the 1950's, the Nazi hunters started getting into finding him.
I'm going to steer clear of a Nazi Hunter rabbit hole for now. But I'm going to add the subject to my list of possible future posts.
* * *
Shit.
I think this post is going to end up being 20,000 words.
I keep finding more stuff that fascinates me...that I want to dig into.
I had this idea that Mengele spent some time in Argentina...maybe one residence and then moved to San Paula. But there are so many various steps along the way.
* * *
Oops.
One thing I didn't realize is that San Paula is part of Brazil.
I knew it was in South America but didn't realize it was in Brazil.
This whole time I thought it was an island.
Anyway, San Paulo is coming into the story.
In 1960, the Nazi Hunters and West Germany were closing in on Mengele.
So after fleeing Argentina for Paraguay, he then escaped Paraguay for Brazil.
The guy I mentioned way up above, Wolfgang Gerhard, helped Mengele.
Mengele ended up investing in a farm with two Hungarian expats, Géza and Gitta Stammer,
Well...two farms, actually.
The first was in Nova Europa in San Paulo and the next was in Serra Negra.
Before you start hating on Mr. and Mrs. Stammer...Mengele was working/investing under a fake name.
In 1963, The Stammers learned the truth. Gerhard convinced them to stay silent by scaring them into believing they'd be implicated for harboring a fugitive.
I'm wondering what the Stammers were like and how they felt. Were they horribly outraged that they had helped an evil Holocaust doctor? Or were they just moderately outraged but mostly only about being fooled?
I got to feed the cats and do other things. But I just Googled and saw articles about the Stammers. I shall read them later today or tomorrow.....
* * *
It's tomorrow.
* * *
And now most of the day has passed.
It's 7:39 pm.
We're going to watch the first episode of Station Eleven soon. But while I'm waiting for Tim, I shall try to do a bit of research.
Yesterday I had looked at the two farm locations on Google Maps. Why? Because I really like looking at things on Google Maps.
There are several articles about Mengele's farming days. The problem is I've already reached my reading limit on most of them. If I keep doing these research posts, I should probably invest in a subscription to one of them.
For now, though....I have a window open with something called UPI.
Oh! It's United Press International.
The Media Bias/Fact Check page rates UPI as being Least Biased and highly factual. Maybe I'll try to consult this website more often when doing research. I mean the Media Bias Fact Check.... It might be interesting.
* * *
The article says Mengele was an unpaid manager on their farm. Does that contradict what Lord Wiki said about him investing in the farms?
This article was published in 1985. So maybe that was the belief back then; then later it was revealed that he had invested money.
The Stammers said they become suspicious after seeing an article about Mengele in 1962. Also they had seen an identity card with his name on it.
Why didn't they call the authorities? Because Gerhard made veiled threats against their children.
It's one thing to want to protect the family business or the family reputation...or to want to avoid the drama of it all. It's another thing to be worried for one's children. I mean especially if you're dealing with a guy who had the nickname "Angel of Death".
The article says the Stammers found Mengele to be difficult and authoritarian. They allowed him to move into a house they owned in San Paulo.
How many places did these people own? Two farms and a house?
The article says the house was in a middle class area. But the article I read earlier had Rolf Mengele describing it as the slums.
Was that a different house? Or....
Maybe Rolf was trying to bring comfort to people by giving them the idea his father lived a more destitute life in the end.
I found another article from UPI, published a day later that goes into more detail. The first was published on June 11 1985; the second on June 12. I'm guessing his death had been recently confirmed...and it was a big news story at the time.
Note: In case I forgot to say or haven't been clear. He died in 1979. It wasn't until 1985 that his body was examined and identified.
While he was living in the maybe-middle-class house, he had taken on the identify of Gerhard. But no. He didn't murder Gerhard; then steal his identity. The story is that Gerhard moved back to Austria and later died. I wonder if Gerhard knew Mengele had taken his name?
And yeah. Now I'm picturing Gerhard's skeleton hidden away in some chest in some attic somewhere in Brazil.
* * *
The title of the second UPI article is "Mengele 'went cold' at the mention of Jews".
Gitta Stammer was interviewed on Brazilian TV where she said that in the rare times Jews were mentioned, Mengele would get angry. And he said, Jews were a people that had no reason to be in Germany.
This guy went beyond not having regret. He had kept up his blatant, angry antisemitism.
I could picture some former Nazis being like...I did what I had to do. I'm not going to feel guilty about it. But maybe Jews aren't so bad after all.
Or maybe, at the least, be indifferent to Jews.
But it seems Mengele continued to be angry at them us —to hate them us
Later in the article, Stammer says Mengele was not a fanatic. I was going to argue about that. But I guess someone could be antisemitic and not obsessive about it. He didn't bring up the subject.
The Stammers confronted Mengele when they saw his picture in the paper. He went pale and left the room. But later he owned up to it.
They asked Mengele to leave. I guess he refused.
They talked to Gerhart about getting Mengele out of their lives.
This is when Gerhart threatened the Stammers...said they knew too much; told them they'd be implicated, and their children would suffer.
I wonder if the "children would suffer" was made ambiguous—said in a way where children suffering could be a result of their parents getting in trouble with the law or could mean Mengele and Gerhard would personally harm them.
Well...there was that little tiny suspicious voice in me wondering...could the Stammers be lying in this article to protect their reputation?
AND....it turns out an employee of the Stammers alleged that Gitta and Mengele were having an affair.
Yikes.
* * *
I thought I had reached my South Florida Sun-Sentinel limit. But it turns out, I have at least one more article left.
Oh!!!
Maybe, because it's now August 1.
I think it's by month.
I went back to the Media Bias/Fact Check site. Why? Because it's fun.
So...The Sun-Sentinel is also rated as least biased and highly factual. But while UPI leans a teeny bit slightly to the right, the Sun Sentinel leans a teeny bit slightly to the left.
The Sun-Sentinel article was published on June 21...about 9-10 days after the two UPI articles.
It looks like more and more was being uncovered; new suspicions, new questions, etc. I think this is why I had conflicting information from Lord Wiki vs. the first UPI article.
I love this line from the article: He lived his final years on farms, playing with children and begging his housemaid to sit with him and watch television soap operas. She told authorities she was in love with Mengele, but she wed another man when he refused to marry her.
Who needs to watch a soap opera when you're living one?
A police officer had doubts about the Stammer's claim. He said thirteen years was a long time to harbor a criminal simply because of their threats.
Maybe.
Well...probably.
Gitta Stammer denied the affair allegations, saying the only indication was that her husband was gone a lot. But the housekeeper also claims to have seen Gitta showing affection towards Mengele.
If Stammer was lying about the affair, I would guess that maybe she also lied about being offended by his identity.
In terms of the money issue, Stammer claimed they received no money from Mengele. Police had doubts about that.
I'm wondering if more has been discovered in the last thirty years, because Lord Wiki said Mengele had invested in the farms. It seemed like a financial deal.
I'll go ask Lord Wiki about his sources.
He says his source for the investment thing is a book by Alan Levy called Nazi Hunter: The Weisenthnal File; published in 1993 and revised in 2002.
I wonder where Levy got his information.
Maybe interviews.....
Well...looking at the book on Amazon. It's about Simon Wiesenthal's detective work. So he probably is the one who learned about the investment stuff.
Lord Wiki also reminds me that Mengele's diaries have been found and sold. There might be clarifications and revelations in those.
* * *
The last people I want to look into before ending this horrendously long post are Liselotte and Wolfram Bossert, the Austrian couple who were friends with Mengele in the end of his life. The Sun-Sentinel puts the dates at 1975-1979.
Mengele didn't live with the Bosserts. But they visited him. They went on vacations with him. Their children bonded with him.
* * *
The Los Angeles Times published an article about the Bosserts and Mengele on June 23, 1985.
Just for fun: The Los Angeles Times is listed by Media Bias/Fact Check as being Left-center and highly factual.
If someone is using their critical thinking skills to wonder, how can you have a bias but still be factual. Well, Media Bias /Fact Check explains: They often publish factual information that utilizes loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by appealing to emotion or stereotypes) to favor liberal causes. These sources are generally trustworthy for information but may require further investigation.
As for the article....
It says that the Bosserts said that they wanted to profit as much as possible with talking to the press about Mengele.
That sounds like a major case of saying the quiet part out loud.
They helped to hide a man who tortured and murdered people...maybe up to 400,000 souls. And now they want to profit from their story.
The Bosserts sound like super shitty people.
Oh wait! They have an excuse.
Mrs. Bossert was fired from her teaching job when the school learned of her connection to Mengele.
She and her husband felt entitled to do some exploiting.
Kudos, by the way, to The Humboldt School, for firing her.
I wonder if they're still around.
Lord Wiki says they are.
And here's their website.
A quote from the Los Angeles Times article: He said that he would like to write a book but that it would take too long by himself. If someone were to help him, he said, a book might be published while interest in Mengele is still high and the subject lucrative.
WTF?!
Mr. Bossert was asked whether he knew about the crimes of Joseph Mengele. He replied that there were many lies about the war, and he doesn't believe most of them. Today, they would have use the phrase: Fake News!
The Bosserts had a daughter.
Sabine Bossert.
I wonder if she's still alive. If she is, what does she think about her parent's behavior? What does she think about her time with Mengele? Is she a Nazi sympathizer?
There's a Sabine Bossert who's a researcher for Hannover Medical School which is in Germany not Austria or San Paula.
She works (or worked) in the department of Institute for Ethics, History and Philosophy of Medicine.
It might be a coincidence. But if it's the same Sabine Bossert, it's pretty poetic. Ethics in medicine. Even if it's not the same person, it's still kind of poetic.
I mean only if she's PRO-ethics....
* * *
Here's a video of Sabine Bossert. If I was good at determining ages, I could more easily rule out whether this is the same Sabine Bossert whose family was friends with Joseph Mengele. But the woman in Sabine in the video looks anywhere from 25-49.
Well...she probably looks to be in the younger range which makes me think it's not the same Sabine Bossert.
I imagine the Sabine Bossert in San Paulo would be my age or a bit older...seeing that their Mengele days were in the 70's. I was a child of the 70's.
* * *
I just reread the part in the Los Angeles Times article about Sabine Bossert. I think I had been so excited to see a name I could Google, I didn't pay attention to. the context.
The article says: The Bosserts’ daughter, Sabine, told the newspaper Folha da Tarde that her parents have been receiving abusive and threatening telephone calls. She said they have decided to move soon to another home.
Now it could be a case of a precocious child and/or one who is given to much emotional and practical responsibilities. BUT I'd guess someone taking on the role of being liaison between reporters and her parents would probably be at least 16. All this reporting took place in 1985. I'm guessing then she was born prior to 1969 and would be past 50.
* * *
Even though I'm very curious to know what happened to the family tree branches of the Mengeles, Stammers, Bosserts, etc....This post is way too long. And due to privacy wishes, I'd probably come across a lot of dead ends.
I think, though, that I will one day return to the subject of the children of Nazis and the children of Nazi enablers. And grandchildren. It's fascinating to me...
When people have ancestors that went down very unethical paths, it's interesting to see how some make it their life's work to fight against what their ancestor fought for; some try to sweep it under the rug; and some are pleased with what their parents have done.
For an index of my Nazi-related posts, click here.
The Dead are Online a novel by Dina Roberts
No comments:
Post a Comment